As our hunting party sat in the shade of a small bush, we gazed through the small openings to our trophy a thousand yards further. This was indeed a trophy beyond comparison; we knew we were hunting one of the rarest bull elk in the world – a straight 6×6 bull that would net score over 400 inches.

This hunt started like many others – somebody gets very lucky, draws an incredible tag and, if I’m lucky, they call me wanting help! That’s what happened when Don Roach from Tucson, AZ learned of his fortune the day the results came out. Don contacted us, checked out our referrals and gave us the green light. My brother Matt was excited to know that we would be hunting his favorite unit and we started scouting immediately. To further prove our dedication to our job, Matt and I would send photos of the bulls we scouted to our clients on a regular basis. We had found an amazing amount of huge bulls and quickly noticed that this was going to be a great year for antler growth. Our team on Don’s hunt consisted of Jeff Wright, Jason Scott, Craig Cormier, my dad Jim Sr., my brother Matt and, without a doubt the funniest and best cook in the world, Zeke!

After extensive scouting, we narrowed our search down to our #1 spot – and with good reason! There were several bulls close to or over that magical 400-inch mark in this area. This is an area that we’ve hunted for many years but, with the type of terrain, most people overlook it and stay away. We had several of these bulls all to ourselves and the excitement for the hunt was building. Several days before the hunt started, Matt put me on a ridge glassing for a huge 380-inch 6×6 that we hoped to reserve as a backup. While I was glassing, I heard a bugle coming in from the flats. I spun around to get the video camera set up when I saw a bull appear. At first I thought he was one of the many 360-class bulls heading up to bed but, as he passed by me at less than 100 yards, I saw that he had extra points on top of a 360-class frame. I never saw the big 6×6 that I was supposed to be glassing, but I didn’t care – this new bull was huge! Matt and I watched the video later and came up with a score of around 415-inches. This bull was a perfect, typical 8×8 except for a broken tine on his right side. Don Roach later named this bull “Ocho Grande” and he became our #1 bull for opening day.

Jeff and I would be hunting with Don Roach, while Matt and Jason headed out with another client. They would be hunting a bull that Matt has a long history with – the rest of the bulls were ours to pursue. Dad and Craig would keep tabs on our plan B and C bulls while we hunted our plan A bulls. We usually hunt the archery hunts in teams of three. This allows one guy to run the video camera while the hunter and the other guide stay back to do the calling.

When opening day arrived, Jeff, Don and I dropped off a rim to intercept Ocho as he made his way up to bed. The wind was wrong, but we hoped we could drop off fast enough to get our wind past the bull as he angled up the ridge. Running down, we soon realized that our plan wasn’t going to work. Ocho knew something wasn’t right and he moved up around us and headed over.

We had located Ocho every day after my first encounter with him, and he was always alone, never bugled much and, when he did, it was barely audible. He acted like an old bull and he had a favorite bedding area, so we felt confident that we would find him again and backed out. Back at camp, we decided to go after a bull that Matt had named “Wrongway” because his beams turned up the wrong way. Don had the opportunity to see Wrongway before the hunt with Matt and we all knew he would be pushing the 400-inch mark or better. However, Wrongway lived in open country and always had a herd of cows with him. Dad had been watching Wrongway and put him to bed that morning, so we all headed out to watch him. We climbed our hill and, as we sat in the shade of a small bush, we all gazed through the small openings to our trophy a thousand yards further. This was the hardest bull to hunt out of all our prospects, but he was definitely worth a try! Our plan was to watch him all day and see what direction he headed in the evening. Just before dark, the herd got up and headed our way. We were sitting in a saddle with very few trees and I anticipated that Wrongway would head through the saddle. Jeff set up behind us to hopefully coax the bull if he held up out of range, while Don and I set up under the only available tree that kept our wind right. The herd was heading right for us and I had the camera rolling. As the herd came closer and closer, I was sure we were going to get a shot when, all of a sudden, they turned hard right and went up and around us just out of range. It was an awesome sight as Wrongway skylined with the sunset behind him – he is a gorgeous bull!

Don, Jeff and I backed out and, even though the plan didn’t work, we felt good about what we had learned. Wrongway had moved through that saddle before and we now had a decent pattern to him. We decided to let him do his thing the next morning and wait to hunt him until that next evening. In the meantime, we decided to hunt a different 390-inch type bull in an area close to Wrongway. But, now that we had seen Wrongway, we really wanted to get our hands on him.

The next morning, we did get close to the 390-inch bull after an awesome long belly crawl by Don. The bull’s cows busted when he only needed 30 more yards to the bedded bull. The video was awesome and the stalk nerve racking, but now we had our sights back on Wrongway and we were eagerly waiting for evening. Craig and two other buddies of ours, David and his wife Jenny, showed up to see Wrongway and hopefully get to watch our hunt from a distance. Our problem today was that Wrongway had picked up more girlfriends and now had a total of nineteen! That’s a lot of eyes out in this open country, but we knew where he would go and hoped for the best.

Evening came and we set up with Jeff up high with the camera, while Don and I picked a different tree on the side of the saddle that the elk went up the previous night. The problem with this location was that if the herd decided to take the saddle, they would be downwind. But, with the angle of the wind, we would hopefully get a shot at the trailing bull before the lead cow spooked. Everything was set, and I could hear Wrongway bugling as he pushed his cows our way. The herd angled up like before, but Wrongway ran up and pushed the cows back down and headed for the saddle! Using a rangefinder, I whispered the yardage to Don as they all passed by out of range. The bull stayed on the opposite side of the cows which put him at over 100 yards but, we had cows at less than 20 yards at the same time! Soon, the lead cow got some wind, spun and took the rest of the herd with her. I frantically did a “lost calf” call on my reed, hoping to at least make the cows question what was happening. Surprisingly, one cow stayed close and the lead cow came back. She was mewing nonstop looking for me, but I had stopped as soon as I knew she was coming back. I could then see the ears of all the other cows coming back into the saddle, and then antler tips! Wrongway was following the cows in and soon, with one cow at less than 20 yards, I could see that we might get a shot. Don drew his bow very slowly and, without any other movement than his drawing arm, he held steady. The cows were all staring at us as Wrongway walked into a shooting lane through all the cows and stopped. I had been whispering the yardage as he came – 100, 90, 80, 70 – Don then asked if he should take him. I said, “Yes,” and the arrow was on its way! Upon impact, Wrongway buckled and hit the ground hard. I jumped up with Don and he put another arrow in him quickly. In less than a minute, Wrongway lay still.

With our buddies running down the hill, Don and I were overcome with emotion and could not believe we had made it happen. We walked around the fallen beast and couldn’t believe his size and beauty. Don had to walk off a ways to take a moment to reflect and I just sat there in amazement that we had Wrongway on the ground. I had dreamed of hunting and harvesting a bull of that caliber all my life and, even though he wasn’t my bull, it felt the same. We all worked very hard and put our knowledge and skills to the test to make that moment happen. Don Roach is the type of guy you like to see get a trophy like Wrongway because he knows and appreciates what he’s achieved. He amazed all of us in camp with his shooting skills, and he is very knowledgeable about elk and their habits. He hired us this year because he had no time to scout and he knew how precious his tag was. Thank you very much Don for placing your trust in Mullins Outfitters and, without a doubt, you deserve that bull buddy!

We never forgot about Ocho Grande during the hunt. David was one of the lucky few who had the early rifle hunt for this same unit. He and his wife were able to find and relocate Ocho several times up to the evening before his hunt started. We all headed out opening day and, like clockwork, Ocho showed up following the monster bull I had initially set out to find the day I found Ocho. This bull is a typical 6×6 pushing the 400-inch mark, but David passed him up at 150 yards – he wanted Ocho. Soon Ocho stepped out, presented a shot and BOOM! David made a great shot and Ocho went down quickly. Ocho is a spectacular bull with eight matching points all the way up. If un-broken, he would have easily scored over 425 gross. He was 415 gross as is! It was an amazing ending to an incredible hunt. We were able to put our hands on two of our biggest bulls this year in less than two weeks apart. Again, I would like to thank these hunters for allowing us to help and also to the Mullins Team, you guys are awesome!

It was 2006, and my hunting partner, Brad Sears, and I had just put in for the bull elk draw. I was up fishing in Alaska when the draw results were released. Brad gave me a call and let me know that we had both been lucky and drawn. We immediately began scouting and found some good bulls. Now we just had to wait for hunting season to arrive.

When the rut kicked in, the bulls moved a few miles and I was unable to find the largest bull. My brother Vinnie and I went out the day before the hunt started and tried to locate him. Vinnie was lucky and happened to find him. He promptly called me and told me that he had found the large bull.

On opening morning, our group went out and saw some good bulls, but we never could find my large bull. That evening we went back out and, right before dark, we came across the large bull. I missed a seventy-yard shot that went just under him. I couldn’t believe it! I finally had a shot and I missed! We followed the bull for a little while and couldn’t get another shot. We carefully tracked the bull and watched him bed down for the night.

The next morning it was really windy and nothing was bugling. We were unable to locate the bull. That night my friend, Ryan Mell, showed up and wanted to go out with us the next morning. He must have been good luck, because the next morning the bulls were going crazy. We had been following a nice six-point all morning, which I would have gladly taken, but I was never presented a shot. Then, all of a sudden, I heard another bugle close by. The large bull appeared and started fighting with the bull I had been chasing. I hurried to close the distance. When I was approximately thirty yards away from the bulls they broke up. My bull started walking right towards me so I took the shot. The shot was a little far back and high, but it did the job. The bull went about seventy yards and went down.

I would like to thank Vinnie, Ryan, and friends for filming, scouting, and loading my bull up. This was a great hunt and I’ll never forget it. My bull was one of the top archery bulls in the state of Arizona for 2006 and officially scored 411 6/8 gross and 393 1/8 net non-typical P&Y.

Joey’s great Arizona archery bull elk was featured in the 2008 King’s Bull Elk Calendar

Behind the Re-creations

Hunter: Joey Wyatt
Date: September 2006
Location: Arizona
Points: 7×8 non-typical
Gross Score: 411 6/8 P&Y
Net Score: 393 1/8 P&Y
Featured: 2008 King’s Bull Elk Calendar

My love for hunting and fishing started nineteen years ago when my great-grandpa put a .22 in my hands when I was just six years old. I couldn’t wait to turn twelve so that I could go deer hunting. My first year was a memorable one. I had an old Fred Bear bow that my parents bought at a garage sale. The spray paint was chipping off and the red was showing through the camo. My step-dad rattled in a doe for me and I got a ten-yard shot from the ground. I had a smile on my face from ear to ear. I figured that that doe would be the most exiting hunt that I would be a part of – boy, was I wrong.

I hunted every year of my life since that first year until I joined the military. When I was nineteen, I joined the army and was on active duty for five years and did a year tour in Iraq. I didn’t get to hunt while I was in the service, but there was not a day that went by where I didn’t think about hunting. I would often close my eyes for just a minute and imagine myself in Mossy Oak instead of my desert BDU’s with my Fred Bear bow in my hands instead of my M16. I missed the smell of the juniper and sagebrush.

I usually hunt on Walker Mountain which is about four miles from Chemult, Oregon. The drive takes about an hour and a half from my house which is a long drive after work. So, I decided to find a place closer to home and set up a tree stand. I scouted an area right outside of Sisters, Oregon up by Three Creeks Lake. During my scouting trip, I saw a real nice 3×4 buck when I was driving. He was bedded down about ten yards off the road. I got out to take a picture and he took off. I thought, “What the heck, I’ll follow him.” He led me to a thicket that opened up into a small meadow that was about thirty yards across both ways. The deer trails and sign were thick. There were a lot of beds in the meadow and along the walls of the thicket. I figured that this would be decent spot to set up a stand.

So, that weekend I set my Gorilla Kong tree stand up in a tree that was just on the wall of the thicket. I went hunting for a week up on Walker Mountain and didn’t see much to shoot. I came home from that hunt empty-handed. One evening, after work, my mom, my fiancée and I decided to go hunt in the meadow where I had put my tree stand. We cruised up there and they dropped me off on the road. I walked up to my stand while my mom and fiancée drove around hoping to find some deer. I climbed up into my stand and hadn’t been there more than thirty minutes when I saw a big rack coming through the trees at about seventy yards away. I could have sworn that my heart stopped. My first thought was that it was an elk! I waited for what seemed like an eternity until the buck finally gave me a good shot opportunity at thirty yards. I was shaking so bad that I could barely pull back my Fred Bear Instinct bow. The shot was good and the buck only ran twenty yards. I gave him about fifteen minutes before climbing down and claiming him.

I thank God and all of our soldiers for an opportunity at this magnificent trophy mule deer, without them none of this would be possible. My archery Oregon buck has been officially scored at 207 gross and 194 7/8 net typical Pope & Young.

It was Friday, the day before opening day, when I called my hunting buddy Dennis to see how soon he could get off of work and go with me to scout some bucks for the next day. Dennis finished up around 1:00 and we headed out east to our hunting area. We got set up and were glassing for bucks by 7:00 p.m. Dennis and I were looking in and around the sage draws that funnel out of some farm fields. We were trying to catch a bachelor herd heading down to feed. About an hour and a half into it, we saw two does and three fawns moving to the fields. Despite the lack of activity, we continued to glass because we saw a couple of very nice mule deer bucks last year in this same area, but did not get an opportunity to harvest one. Sitting patiently, Dennis and I waited until dark. It was then, in the very last light, that we made out the forms of three bucks. However, with the low light, we had a very hard time distinguishing just how big they were. As we got ready for bed, we came up with a game plan for the next morning.

Dennis and I were awake on opening day by 3:00 a.m. We quickly set up on a small hill to watch the fields for the three bucks as the sun rose. When the sun is fully up, the daily high can reach 100-degrees. Obviously, our window of opportunity was short. As morning dawned, we glassed a group of five bucks 500 yards out. The bucks were moving to bed down and wait out the heat of the day. This bachelor group had a spike, a 1×3, a 150-class 4×4, a mid-180 class 4×4 and a very large typical 4×4 in the 200-inch range. Dennis looked at me and said, “That’s the one we want.” Dennis has harvested some very nice trophy deer and can field judge accurately from a distance. The bucks were making their way up the hill and out of the fields. When they got to the edge of the sage, the two smallest bucks turned and headed our way and the three large bucks headed a different direction. It looked as though the big bucks were going to move into the timber to bed down. Dennis and I made the decision to move around the bucks, get ahead of them to set up, and try to intercept them in the timber.

Dennis and I made a large loop and set up about 500 yards inside the timber where we thought the bucks would come through to bed down. We were on high alert and sat patiently for about an hour, but there were no bucks to be seen. We got up and brainstormed ideas of where the bucks could have gone. As we talked, we decided to still hunt very slowly back to where we had seen them last. Hopefully, we would be able to find them or where they were bedded. We began taking a step and then glassing for about five minutes through binoculars as to be sure not to bump them out of their beds – it was imperative to see them before they saw us. Dennis and I started moving out slowly and, for the next 45 minutes, we saw nothing.

Finally, we spotted a large set of antlers sticking up above the brush a good 200 yards out. The buck was bedded down on the other side of some brush and all we could see were his large, velvet-covered antlers. After looking at the depth of his forks and his 30-inch plus spread, we both agreed that this buck was the one we were after. Dennis and I set up and tried to spot the other two bucks. We did not want to get busted by one of the other bucks that were with this large buck. After looking for another ten minutes, we found the other two bucks. They were bedded down about 30 yards farther out and looking away from us. Dennis told me to go ahead and make a stalk over to the large buck and try to get an arrow in him.

With the wind in my face, I got a reference to where the buck was in case I lost him during the stalk. I took my boots off and proceeded to move in. It was a clear day and the wind was blowing hard enough to hide some of my sound and movement. Timing my movement with the wind gusts, I was able to close the 200-yard gap down to approximately 50 yards in an hour. Both of the smaller bucks, which I had made sure to keep out of sight, were still bedded down and looking away. I now had to move to be able to get a clear shot. When you’re 50 yards from a 200-class buck, it’s hard to make a step. With every gust of wind, I would slide my feet six inches or so. Finally, I got to where I could see the buck’s vitals and I was within shooting range at 36 yards. Unfortunately, the buck was looking my way and I had to wait for him to look away. I waited for what seemed like an hour but was probably only about two minutes. The buck looked away to check out something and I drew my Hoyt Ultratec and put a Thunderhead right into his armpit. The buck jumped up, ran about 60 yards, stumbled, and fell over dead. Not knowing if he was down for good, I snuck back to Dennis who had watched it all in his binoculars. Dennis’ first comment was, “You just killed the biggest deer I have ever seen.” We sat there for another thirty minutes to make sure he was down for good before we approached him. While Dennis hiked back to the truck to get the camera, I thanked the good Lord for this magnificent buck.

The big velvet buck was officially scored after the sixty-day drying period and, for a couple of days, was the new Oregon State Record. The buck scores 202 5/8 gross and 192 4/8 net P&Y.

As I leveled my pin on the sweet spot I only had one thought, “Do not punch your trigger again.” I had missed this same big buck twelve days earlier this season.

My season, like most hunter’s, started with a lot of hope. This just felt like it was my year. I had put in as much work before the season as I could. This included losing sixty pounds, running five miles a day five days a week, daily practice with my bow and lots of time going through every possible hunting setup I could think of so when the time came I would know exactly what to do.

This year was going to be a little different for me. I had told my buddy Mike that if he went with me this year on opening weekend that he would see some nice bucks and the rest would be up to him. He should have a chance to harvest one.

As dawn broke on opening morning, Mike, another hunting buddy, Nate, and I were in my best spot right where we needed to be. Nate would hunt low, Mike would hunt the middle of the ridge, and I would hunt the high side of the bowl. The plan was that I would come around the top and drop off, pushing anything that was up high down to Nate or Mike.
Within fifteen minutes of sunrise, I had two deer working my way and, as I raised my binos, I could see that it was two forked horns. They were feeding toward me, so I hung tight and, ten minutes later, they were about twenty yards out. I watched them for a few minutes and as soon as they got behind me I continued on with my hunt.

The rest of the day was like a bad dream as it was filled with the pain of a long hike and not seeing any other deer in my best area. This was unusual because there are typically thirty-plus deer in this area and at least three to six good bucks in the 150-class. We moved on for the afternoon hunt and still did not see anything good. We saw six more deer; two of them were three-points, but it was not what we were used to seeing.
So, I had promised a good friend a chance at a nice buck and it didn’t happen. Mike had to go home Saturday night, so Sunday morning it was Nate and I. I was baffled as to where the big bucks had gone as they were always in my spot. To say I was disappointed would have been an understatement. I had worked hard and really thought it was going to be the year.

That afternoon we decided to scout a new area. We knew the animals did not just get up and leave and that they had to be around somewhere. Not ten minutes into the new area, we saw a group of five big bucks. The smallest was a 140 and the biggest was in the mid-160 class. They busted us before we got in the red zone and we never had a chance at a shot.

It wasn’t five minutes later when Nate spotted a nice 4×4. We made a plan and Nate took off. I sat back and watched Nate, but I had lost sight of his buck. Nate put in a great stalk but came up to the side of the buck and not behind him. He got close, but not close enough. As the buck bounced off it was another one of those “what if” moments that eat you alive. The good part of all of this was that we had found another good area and would definitely be back.

With a good night’s sleep, Monday morning had a new sense of hope as we had finally gotten into the animals. We started the morning hunting the honey hole and it was not too long before I spotted something that looked out of place. As I raised my binos, all I could see was horns – I didn’t even bother to count, I knew this one was huge.

I nocked an arrow and started to draw back as there was no way to get any closer. I started to level my pins and then my memory goes blank, I don’t remember what happened, but the next memory I have is the word, “No!” I had just released my arrow and I was not even close to having the right pin on the vitals. The arrow flew harmlessly twenty yards in front of the buck. As we watched him run off, three other deer exploded out of the area. It was then that Nate said, “That is the biggest deer I have ever seen,” and he was right.

I did not want to hear it, but it was true. I had never even seen a buck that big, he made the other deer look like dogs. I glassed him as he ran and noticed a kicker off each side of his rack. My heart and spirit were broken. A friend of mine told me before I started bow hunting that it is an emotional roller coaster. I cannot think of anything else where you can go from low to high and back to low all in fifteen seconds. But that is what we all love, isn’t it?

The rest of the day was a blur. We packed up camp and went home. I would not hunt again until the eighth of September. That is when I was scheduled to take a week off of work. Another one of my good friends as well as Mike’s brother, Dave, would be joining us for the hunt.

Mike and I picked Dave up on Friday night and then loaded up and headed out for camp the next day. That afternoon we decided to go look at the main area where we had decided to hunt the next day. As we made our way to the area, we were all talking about elk hunting – in our minds the deer hunt was pretty much over. However, I did decide to show Dave the area where the big buck I had missed had been.

As we moved through the area, we started seeing some deer. There was a group of does that we glassed, but we did not see any bucks. We moved a little farther and there was another group; but again, no bucks that we could see. We moved a couple of feet and something looked odd. I could see a buck mixed in with the does, but he looked to be double their size – it had to be a buck! We were close, so I used my rangefinder and my heart just about stopped. There he was, the big buck I had accidentally released my arrow on twelve days earlier. This time I did not look at his antlers – I just knew it was him.

We were uphill from the buck and he was quartering away from me. As I drew my bow back and leveled my pin on his sweet spot I just kept thinking, “Do not punch your trigger.” When I let it fly it looked good and, as I saw him spin to take off, I heard Dave say, “Perfect shot.” I could see my arrow sticking out of his side. The buck did not run; he walked about thirty yards and went down.

I could not believe how lucky I had been. What a year. I still did not know exactly how big the buck was and the twenty-minute wait was the longest I can remember. Finally, we could not take it anymore and had to go see him. Since we saw him go down, we were not too worried about him being wounded. When we got up to the buck, I could not believe the size of him. Everything about him was big – not just the rack, but even his body was huge.

This is the largest deer I have ever seen to date both in body and rack size. He was estimated to be six years old and have a live weight of 320 pounds. The official score is 231 1/8 gross and 225 3/8 net, a new Oregon state, velvet, non-typical mule deer record.

As a sidenote, I have been fortunate to harvest three animals this year. Four days after I harvested this buck, I was able to harvest a bull elk thanks to Dave’s calling. Then, in late October, I went to hunt whitetail deer with Dave in Georgia and it was three arrows and three deer down. I guess for once that feeling of this being my year came true, I do not think I could ask for more…although I do have one more deer tag, we will see what happens!

One of the greatest challenges in hunting Arizona’s monster bulls is to draw a tag. Nick Franklin did just that in 2003. He actually drew his second choice hunt. Nick’s brother Charlie had also drawn a tag in the same unit and the two of them began scouting and gathering information from friends and co-workers. This tactic really paid off in the long run. No big bulls were found before the season started, but Nick could tell that the antler growth was looking very good and that it was going to be a great year to have a tag.

At the beginning of the season, Nick was seeing bulls every day but passing on them as he was looking for something bigger and was willing to use the whole season to find a large bull if necessary. About a week into the hunt, Nick’s buddy, Travis Mast, was supposed to come help out, but got delayed a few days due to work. Nick decided that since he would be hunting alone until Travis arrived, he would try out another area. Nick and Charlie had heard of a really big bull being missed in this alternate area several years earlier. Nick ran into another hunter and asked him if he had seen a big bull that was known to be in this area. The hunter claimed he hadn’t seen anything, but the look in his eye had Nick thinking otherwise. This was the area he was going to focus on. That night, Travis showed up around 3:30 a.m. after driving all night to get there. With the alarm set for 4:00 a.m., there wasn’t much time for rest as Travis didn’t want to miss a moment. As they drove out to the area, Nick related to Travis the conversation he had had with the other hunter. He knew there was a big bull in that area, they just had to find him.

Hearing a faint bugle about an hour before daylight, Nick and Travis decided to move up the ridge towards a watering hole and wait. They heard a bugle way off in the distance and the chase was on. They knew they had to get closer and cut the herd off before the elk started to feed away. Stopping just in time to let two satellite bulls walk by, they noticed very fresh sign on the ground and knew they were very close. Passing through some more satellite bulls and closing in on some cows, they heard a big smash as two bulls began crashing and fighting. Travis whispered, “Oh my gosh, he’s huge! I’m counting ten or twelve points!” Just then, another bull bugled behind them and caused the big bull to move into a perfect position as he moved towards them and started raking a tree. With the big bull distracted, Nick used this opportunity to close the gap. Before he knew it, he was within bow range. Everything worked out perfectly as the bull put his head down and Nick drew and released a perfect shot. Time froze, everything stood still, and the next thing Nick knew, he was standing next to the largest elk ever taken by a bowhunter.

Nick’s amazing non-typical archery elk was panel-scored in 2004 and declared the new Pope & Young world record with an official score of 442 0/8 P&Y. Nick’s bull was also invited to the Boone & Crockett panel score and was accepted with a score of 444 4/8 B&C and is tied for #6 all-time.